[Marq]

Can someone do the math of which one is better dps for a magic char.

A rare pet eir is 33% Magic crit chance and a buff of 19% damage to all attacks for 20 secs.

A black dragon is the reverse of this and has a low 10% magic crit chance at rare with a 54% damage to all attacks increase for 30 secs which is quite a lot better than 20 secs.

A gold dragon gives a 30% increase to the damage of your crits with the same 54% buff but with no crit chance increase.

For me a black dragon would leave me around 42% crit chance while a golden would leave me around 32% but with a nice 30% increase in the damage of my crits. I guess the best way would be to just get them all and use the DPS meter to see but who would do that man.

This post has been edited by Marq: 21 April 2010 - 06:16 AM

[CRaZyGTO]

LoL it depends if you are the type to spam any skill at anytime or you wait for buffs then spam.

If you throw out everything you have randomly, a Pet Eir would be better for the higher chance of crit.

If you focus you dps in a limited time, you get black dragon; spam with the 54% more dps.

The gold dragon is pretty useless for Int Char i think, its more of Dex char pet since they have higher chance of crit rate already.

Lets say for Gold dragon, what's the point of higher crit dmg when you don't crit often anyways.

If you pick between Gold or Black dragon, the gold dragon would be better with 10% less crit chance but you can get 30% higher crit dmg half the time you are spamming.

That leaves you with Pet Eir or Gold Dragon lol, both you can spam all you want.

Pet Eir for you will make u 65% crit with 19% dmg for 1/3 the time.
Gold Dragon leaves you with 32% crit with 54% dmg for 1/2 the time.

personally I would get Eir Pet where i can crit 2/3 of the times rather than 1/3 of the times with 35% more dmg for 1/2 the time. plus I prefer eir more for the look than dragon; its pretty ugly lol. I never zoom in to look at it in game but on ijji forum they look like some retarded dragon.

you would have to test out the dmg for those 2 by getting them lol. or compare the dps with another wiz with same stat and build as you with different pet.

This post has been edited by kioupchi: 21 April 2010 - 08:39 AM

[derangedcow]

well your crit rate is already what like 350%? adding another 30% crit rate is like an 8.5% relative increase
and with a crappy crit chance without eir pet - what like 40% crit? - then that 8.5 becomes a 3.4% relative average increase

so lets see, you should have 70% crits with eir pet
33% difference in crits between eir and gold dragon, which is almost half of your crits, which is like taking 175% away from your average damage

but theres also the buff

50-15=35
15 for eir pet buff because thats what it is under 50% fullness which is what most people keep their pets as. above 50% is too much of a hassle
50 for dragon buff for now, cause idk what it is at 50% fullness

+35% to your overall damage, then put the 37% chance of +380% dmg, thats a 140.6% relative average increase

idk i lost interest in the middle so i'll continue later with putting the two effects together
but it matters a lot what your crit rate already is

[ZeroKunoichiX]

The Critrate dmg increase is pointless if you can't crit.
You are better off getting a pet eir if you talk about crit other than that the dragons 54% dmg increase buff is well worth it to stack with AEH if it stacks.

[derangedcow]

be like nite and get a gold dragon just for crit pot `-`

[Damie]

Ok, here is a simplified idea of the general damage each pet does (kio explains it much easier though, i just have the math to back him up). This is of course supposing many things, and here are some of them:

Suppositions: Only focusing on magic skills; basically a spammer, meaning it's a random system and not saving skills for pet buff (waiting for pet buff could favor some pets over others, and it also means less dps with eir pet since you have more time waiting than damaging); ignoring sequence of spells (obviously slower spells, high hitting spells, etc. may produce less damage overall than say fast hitting, multiple hitting spells, especially during buff); since i am considering randomness, the buff time over the time interval is a fixed probability (considering one minute, since that's the time when buff restarts); bla bla bla figure the rest yourself, im not complicating this anymore

Variables:

• BASE: damage of one hit from an arbitrary spell (includes randomness and junk; each spell has its own base damage, basically saying that the formulas do not change for each spell, just their base damage)
• SKILL: percent increase of damage (this is always active)
• CDB: chance of deadly blow, or the probability of getting a critical hit in one hit
• DBR: deadly blow rate - percent increase of damage given that the attack was a critical hit
• EXPECTED: the expected damage of one hit (considers the probability for critical hit ONLY)
• TOTAL: the expected damage of one hit (considers the probability for critical hit AND if it is during buff time or not, using the probability of it being during buff time)

Equations:

• EXPECTED: damage is separated in into adding non crit and crit, using their respective probabilities as the weights, so you can get an expected value for damage (AKA average)
• TOTAL: the expected value for damage is separated into damage done while buff, and while not in buff, once again using probability as weights

So here goes the math (these are using my stats as an example):


No Pet (obviously does not have a buff time, so no added damage for TOTAL):

EXPECTED = (1 - CDB)(SKILL * BASE) + (CDB)(DBR)(SKILL * BASE)

EXPECTED = 0.6227 * 1.9136 * BASE + 0.3773 * 3.075 * 1.9136 * BASE = 3.4118 * BASE

TOTAL = 3.4118 * BASE

MEANING ON AVERAGE MY BASE DAMAGE IS UPPED 3.4 times!

Eir Pet (adds high fixed %crit, and buff adds low %damage):

EXPECTED = (1 - CDB - EIRPET)(SKILL * BASE) + (CDB + EIRPET)(DBR)(SKILL * BASE)

EXPECTED = 0.2927 * 1.9136 * BASE + 0.7073 * 3.075 * 1.9136 * BASE = 4.7221 * BASE

TOTAL = (1/3)(1.19) * EXPECTED + 2/3 * EXPECTED = 5.0212 * BASE

MEANING ON AVERAGE MY BASE DAMAGE IS UPPED 5.0 times WITH EIR PET!

Black Dragon (adds low fixed %crit, and buff adds high %damage):

EXPECTED = (1 - CDB - BDPET)(SKILL * BASE) + (CDB + BDPET)(DBR)(SKILL * BASE)

EXPECTED = 0.5227 * 1.9136 * BASE + 0.4773 * 3.075 * 1.9136 * BASE = 3.8088 * BASE

TOTAL = (1/2)(1.54) * EXPECTED + 1/2 * EXPECTED = 4.8372 * BASE

MEANING ON AVERAGE MY BASE DAMAGE IS UPPED 4.8 times WITH BLACK DRAGON PET!

Gold Dragon (adds moderate %dbr, and buff adds high %damage):

EXPECTED = (1 - CDB)(SKILL * BASE) + (CDB)(DBR + GDPET)(SKILL * BASE)

EXPECTED = 0.6227 * 1.9136 * BASE + 0.3773 * 3.375 * 1.9136 * BASE = 3.6284 * BASE

TOTAL = (1/2)(1.54) * EXPECTED + 1/2 * EXPECTED = 4.6081 * BASE

MEANING ON AVERAGE MY BASE DAMAGE IS UPPED 4.6 times WITH GOLD DRAGON PET!

So what does this mean?

• If you spam a lot of spells without taking much into account whether buff is on or not, get an Eir pet, since in general it gives high percentage for critical attack, meaning more critical hits so in essence more damage (AND dps! sure buff is only 1/3 of the time compared to 1/2 the time, but if you're going for lots of hits at ANY given moment, preferably all the time, more crits gives more moments of high damage on average, whereas dragons will give you 1/2 the time of low-moderate damage).
  
• If you are more deterministic and save spells until buff status is on, then use black dragon. This favors the total damage to be higher, and i guess if you spam during this time, most of your spells will be on cd 1/2 the time anyways (however, sometimes spells are used up before the buff time is over, meaning there's a block of buff time where you're not doing much of anything, so what's the point? But if you use your time wisely, this can overshadow eir pet)
• If you already have high %crit rate, then the only other factor that can really increase your damage output is raising DBR, so gold dragon is your best friend.
• So yeah, each hit is multiplied 5 times with eir pet, 4.8 times with black dragon, and 4.6 times with gold dragon. It's up to you, really, to decide if the difference is really important.
  

Wow that was boring. Enjoy!

This post has been edited by Damie: 24 April 2010 - 11:03 PM

[iLunian]

go with what you think looks cooler thats what i did

[biggrim]

iLunian, on 27 April 2010 - 08:11 PM, said:

go with what you think looks cooler thats what i did

This guy knows his stuff i agree with this statement, its not bout stats

[Leca]

biggrim, on 27 April 2010 - 09:00 PM, said:

its not bout stats

are you sure your in the right guild?

hehe jk luv ya

[iLunian]

ya yin smart man

[DoReMi]

Damie, on 24 April 2010 - 10:57 PM, said:

Ok, here is a simplified idea of the general damage each pet does (kio explains it much easier though, i just have the math to back him up). This is of course supposing many things, and here are some of them:

Suppositions: Only focusing on magic skills; basically a spammer, meaning it's a random system and not saving skills for pet buff (waiting for pet buff could favor some pets over others, and it also means less dps with eir pet since you have more time waiting than damaging); ignoring sequence of spells (obviously slower spells, high hitting spells, etc. may produce less damage overall than say fast hitting, multiple hitting spells, especially during buff); since i am considering randomness, the buff time over the time interval is a fixed probability (considering one minute, since that's the time when buff restarts); bla bla bla figure the rest yourself, im not complicating this anymore

Variables:

• BASE: damage of one hit from an arbitrary spell (includes randomness and junk; each spell has its own base damage, basically saying that the formulas do not change for each spell, just their base damage)
• SKILL: percent increase of damage (this is always active)
• CDB: chance of deadly blow, or the probability of getting a critical hit in one hit
• DBR: deadly blow rate - percent increase of damage given that the attack was a critical hit
• EXPECTED: the expected damage of one hit (considers the probability for critical hit ONLY)
• TOTAL: the expected damage of one hit (considers the probability for critical hit AND if it is during buff time or not, using the probability of it being during buff time)

Equations:

• EXPECTED: damage is separated in into adding non crit and crit, using their respective probabilities as the weights, so you can get an expected value for damage (AKA average)
• TOTAL: the expected value for damage is separated into damage done while buff, and while not in buff, once again using probability as weights

So here goes the math (these are using my stats as an example):


No Pet (obviously does not have a buff time, so no added damage for TOTAL):

EXPECTED = (1 - CDB)(SKILL * BASE) + (CDB)(DBR)(SKILL * BASE)

EXPECTED = 0.6227 * 1.9136 * BASE + 0.3773 * 3.075 * 1.9136 * BASE = 3.4118 * BASE

TOTAL = 3.4118 * BASE

MEANING ON AVERAGE MY BASE DAMAGE IS UPPED 3.4 times!

Eir Pet (adds high fixed %crit, and buff adds low %damage):

EXPECTED = (1 - CDB - EIRPET)(SKILL * BASE) + (CDB + EIRPET)(DBR)(SKILL * BASE)

EXPECTED = 0.2927 * 1.9136 * BASE + 0.7073 * 3.075 * 1.9136 * BASE = 4.7221 * BASE

TOTAL = (1/3)(1.19) * EXPECTED + 2/3 * EXPECTED = 5.0212 * BASE

MEANING ON AVERAGE MY BASE DAMAGE IS UPPED 5.0 times WITH EIR PET!

Black Dragon (adds low fixed %crit, and buff adds high %damage):

EXPECTED = (1 - CDB - BDPET)(SKILL * BASE) + (CDB + BDPET)(DBR)(SKILL * BASE)

EXPECTED = 0.5227 * 1.9136 * BASE + 0.4773 * 3.075 * 1.9136 * BASE = 3.8088 * BASE

TOTAL = (1/2)(1.54) * EXPECTED + 1/2 * EXPECTED = 4.8372 * BASE

MEANING ON AVERAGE MY BASE DAMAGE IS UPPED 4.8 times WITH BLACK DRAGON PET!

Gold Dragon (adds moderate %dbr, and buff adds high %damage):

EXPECTED = (1 - CDB)(SKILL * BASE) + (CDB)(DBR + GDPET)(SKILL * BASE)

EXPECTED = 0.6227 * 1.9136 * BASE + 0.3773 * 3.375 * 1.9136 * BASE = 3.6284 * BASE

TOTAL = (1/2)(1.54) * EXPECTED + 1/2 * EXPECTED = 4.6081 * BASE

MEANING ON AVERAGE MY BASE DAMAGE IS UPPED 4.6 times WITH GOLD DRAGON PET!

So what does this mean?

• If you spam a lot of spells without taking much into account whether buff is on or not, get an Eir pet, since in general it gives high percentage for critical attack, meaning more critical hits so in essence more damage (AND dps! sure buff is only 1/3 of the time compared to 1/2 the time, but if you're going for lots of hits at ANY given moment, preferably all the time, more crits gives more moments of high damage on average, whereas dragons will give you 1/2 the time of low-moderate damage).
  
• If you are more deterministic and save spells until buff status is on, then use black dragon. This favors the total damage to be higher, and i guess if you spam during this time, most of your spells will be on cd 1/2 the time anyways (however, sometimes spells are used up before the buff time is over, meaning there's a block of buff time where you're not doing much of anything, so what's the point? But if you use your time wisely, this can overshadow eir pet)
• If you already have high %crit rate, then the only other factor that can really increase your damage output is raising DBR, so gold dragon is your best friend.
• So yeah, each hit is multiplied 5 times with eir pet, 4.8 times with black dragon, and 4.6 times with gold dragon. It's up to you, really, to decide if the difference is really important.
  

Wow that was boring. Enjoy!

good organized, colorful, but too long. Unicorn is better!!! coz it has WING and HORN, plus it looks like a flying HORSE.

[iLunian]

dang ur writing damie to long for joe to read

[Damie]

a good reading tactic is if you think it's too long, go to the end, USUALLY there's a nice summary of everything.

[derangedcow]

yea fgt, damie spent time on that so you better read it

[biggrim]

i did man then my head blew up from the amount of awesome it was made of

[derangedcow]

nah it's not made of awesome; it made awesome
cause they had to invent a new word to describe what it is

[Marq]

screw the math, I have gcoin! to test them all out dat is

[biggrim]

Marq, on 11 May 2010 - 04:48 AM, said:

screw the math, I have gcoin! to test them all out dat is

i see the reference you made there

[Marq]

biggrim, on 11 May 2010 - 05:29 PM, said:

Marq, on 11 May 2010 - 04:48 AM, said:

screw the math, I have gcoin! to test them all out dat is

i see the reference you made there

=o]

[iLunian]

derangedcow, on 10 May 2010 - 07:17 PM, said:

yea fgt, damie spent time on that so you better read it

who ya calling fgt :<